Curse

upier · Jun 03, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

@Martin: that kind of update does work, actually, and it doesn't even require nerfing any skills into oblivion; Anet just never went far enough with it. If you want to quash the abuse of a skill, you make sure every monster group in the target area carries hard counters to that skill. The player can't ever win this arms race, because they simply don't have enough skill slots.

Or you just make sure that EVERY group has a healer or two.
I mean, teams of 50 bloody mesmers or warriors (or assassins for that matter

) are just BEGGING to be abused.

Otherwise the player just counters the counter.

beaverlegions · Jun 03, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Does gw 1 still has ppl other than mods looking at 1 out of every 10000 report and one chick posting stuff to keep the gw players awake?
If there are actually devs working on this game I dont really undestand what they are doing now, the BIG anniversary update had no real content so I guess that every once in a will they'll dish out and update thay says that the 4 least used skills in the game now cost 5 less energy and last for 10 more seconds.
Whoopdy whoop.

Martin Alvito · Jun 03, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

If you want to quash the abuse of a skill, you make sure every monster group in the target area carries hard counters to that skill. The player can't ever win this arms race, because they simply don't have enough skill slots.

Everywhere in the game? Do you have any idea how many areas see SF abuse?

Sure, if you want to put the Stormcloud Incubus everywhere, it'll work. It's also unnecessarily limiting and distorts the game much more than simply giving perma-SF a killshot.

UnChosen · Jun 04, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

The entire concept of "holding aggro" needs to go.

@Martin: that kind of update does work, actually, and it doesn't even require nerfing any skills into oblivion; Anet just never went far enough with it. If you want to quash the abuse of a skill, you make sure every monster group in the target area carries hard counters to that skill. The player can't ever win this arms race, because they simply don't have enough skill slots.

While I agree with you about the holding aggro concept...it would only work if there are no monster stats pump. The strongest monsters should be exactly the same as a player with max stats, and monsters should not have nearly infinite energy, no faster cast, no faster recharge, same armor as player, same HP, et. etc. Only Bosses should be the exception.

With stuff in HM doing cheating-like 200 dmg normal attack to players its pretty much required to hold aggro, either with perma or an 600 tank or an obsi tank with a crapload of bonds. There's just no way around it when the dmg is so ridiculous.

Gigashadow · Jun 04, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

The entire concept of "holding aggro" needs to go.

@Martin: that kind of update does work, actually, and it doesn't even require nerfing any skills into oblivion; Anet just never went far enough with it. If you want to quash the abuse of a skill, you make sure every monster group in the target area carries hard counters to that skill. The player can't ever win this arms race, because they simply don't have enough skill slots.

God yes, the diku mud style agro/threat is a really terrible mechanic that I hope does not get introduced into GW2. It just feels so artificial in pretty much any game it is in.

I do much prefer Guild Wars' body blocking mechanism, although at times (for example, when my warrior is protted while corner blocking a ton of mobs) it feels almost exploitative. I would definitely rather have body blocking (and snaring, if mobs get around your "wall") as pve mechanics, than the generic threat level, as good positioning is more of a "fun" mechanic for everyone.

FoxBat · Jun 04, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Just kill tanking completely. GW1 had more than enough shutdown possibilities, that's how people stay alive in PvP, just carry that to GW2.

dan daze · Jun 04, 2009, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Nerf SF so that It may only be used with max cons(essence+egg+cc+greil+rock candy) and has .25second window to cast it in.

CoP-change it to target foe and up to 1...4 other foes.

RoJ-scatter.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 04, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

rework SF. Perma shadow needs to go, but lets re-think shadowform. so that it can be used for assassins in mobs to take out the important key boss, but then allows them enough time to get out of the battle and not to lose so much health. perhaps you can say, shadow form in PVE and PVP will only last for 20 seconds and will recharge in 1 secs and shadowform is disabled for 45 seconds, see, cant use it twice (make sure that any combination of consumables and enchantment extensions or other skills will not work to allow perma). after shadowform has ended, all your skills are disabled for 15 -20seconds.

this will allow shadowform to be used in pvp and pve for specific purposes ie. assassinating, but will then take the assassin out of the game for a certain amount of time. make sure that arcane echo doesn;t work by making sure that when shadowform ends all enchantments are stipped and for 20 seconds you cannot be the target of enchantments as well. ie. you lose all enchantments and your skills are disabled for 20 seconds. if you make it a maintained enchantment, it might work this way. so that it ends before the new one is applied and then you cannot reaaply it again. you keep full health, but you will be unprotable in gvg.

signets of disenchant should be made more workable so that it can be used as an effective counter in gvg or HA. and there are plenty of counters for signets. so the layers of protection and counters against counters can weave its magic.

Regulus X · Jun 04, 2009, 04:14 AM // 04:14

*Wishful thinking*

E/Me Distortion Mindblast Nerf

Blocking rate reworked (all stances, enchantments, etc.. 50% across the board unless they have elite status *like Escape*).

Blind miss % reduced to 50%.

Give Hunter's Shot back it's quick-activation and add the same to prep'd shot.

and anything else that is IMBA be BA (not hit with the "N" Bomb too hard though..)

Rasco · Jun 04, 2009, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Is the update coming out tomorrow? or next week? We'll really, I care more for my tourny points...

Amnel Ithtirsol · Jun 04, 2009, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Lets just think about this for a second: what impact will the complete removal of SF have on the already shrinking community?

daraaksii · Jun 04, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnel Ithtirsol

Lets just think about this for a second: what impact will the complete removal of SF have on the already shrinking community?

Who cares? It's broken.

Chicken Ftw · Jun 04, 2009, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnel Ithtirsol

Lets just think about this for a second: what impact will the complete removal of SF have on the already shrinking community?

Why would people who rely on broken mechanics to win in PvE leaving just because they lost a skill or two... ever be a bad thing? If that's all it takes to make you quit, then you won't likely be missed.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Jun 04, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

It's broken.

Broken it sure is, no denying it.
Just as broken as Discord (well, necros in general), AP, CoP, PI, RoJ, SY... the list goes on.
In fact any skill (or combination of skills) that, when used correctly, overpowers the AI in PvE could be seen as being 'broken'. Not true?

Quote:

Who cares?

That's in part what I was trying to find out with my question. I can see that a SF removal will greatly impact the farming community at large and that a lot of the current farmers will have to move on to different locations and skill sets. That should not be a huge problem though, as farmers generally adapt quite quickly to skill changes.

The bigger issue here could be grouping and the way that part of the game will inevitably change as a result of any tampering with the meta.

How will this change and, will the community adjust and move on to the next gimmick or will it have a more devastating effect on the populace?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Why would people who rely on broken mechanics to win in PvE leaving just because they lost a skill or two... ever be a bad thing? If that's all it takes to make you quit, then you won't likely be missed.

I hope that you understood my question as being just that, a question?

People who leave the game because of a single skill change won't be missed at all, 100% agreed. That being said, it is also important to remember that this is, after all, a MMO and if numbers fall people who enjoy interacting with others in towns, missions, whatever will start to move on to games where the populace is expanding, not dwindling (for whatever reason).

So, could a change to a single skill have a much greater impact on the game than first thought?. Or could it be that SF (and it's current usage) isn't nearly as important and widespread as we all think?

Lishy · Jun 04, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Guys, there's leaks anet found a better exploit than SF for uber farming but they won't tell us what it is. So once they nerf SF, be on the lookout for the next god mode skill :|

MithranArkanere · Jun 04, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by daraaksii

Who cares? It's broken.

Hm... maybe the 10000 players with SF assassins could end up making warriors to tank like in the old days...

There are 10 professions, after all.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 04, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Guys, there's leaks anet found a better exploit than SF for uber farming but they won't tell us what it is. So once they nerf SF, be on the lookout for the next god mode skill :|

So you're saying they have another exploit, won't tell us, and are going to nerf SF? Just saying. It's probably SB or Obby.